Dark Balladry in the Wild West: Kevin Barry’s The Heart in Winter

 

In the tenth episode of The Irish Books Podcast, host Dr Chris Murray is joined by Maebh Long, the Eamon Cleary Chair in Irish Studies at the University of Otago, to discuss Kevin Barry’s The Heart in Winter.

Set in the copper-mining town of Butte, Montana, in 1891, the novel is a "love born of flames" a gritty, lyrical Western where the landscape of Ireland is superimposed onto the American frontier.

A Love Born of Flames

The narrative follows an Irish community in Butte, largely populated by laborers from County Cork. At the center is Tom Rourke, a "frustrated dreamer" and scribe who writes wooing letters for lonely miners. His life is upended by the arrival of Polly Gillespie, a mail-order bride of agency and strategy who has come to marry an official at the mines.

• The Meeting: Tom and Polly meet in a photography studio, where their eyes lock and they realise everything is going to change.

• The Flight: Soon, they are lovers on the run. After setting fire to a boarding house and stealing a horse and cash, they flee into the Montana wilderness, pursued by bounty hunters hired by Polly’s husband.

• The Mythic Echo: The podcast highlights how this story echoes ancient Irish folklore, specifically the tales of Dermot and Gráinne and Deirdre of the Sorrows - fated lovers fleeing an older, powerful king .

The Architecture of Style

Maebh Long emphasises that Barry is, above all, an "exquisite stylist". He crafts sentences that balance intellectual energy with "subversive comic play," aware of how "the overly serious sentence falls apart".

• Dark Balladry: Barry uses the term "dark balladry" to describe the pursuit of the lovers. Like a traditional ballad, the story focuses on mood and atmosphere over plot twists.

• Focalisation: The novel adroitly shifts between the direct perspectives of Tom, Polly, and even the lead bounty hunter, Jago Marak, using "focalisation" to ground the omniscient narrative in the characters' unique vocabularies .

• Contemporary Language: Barry intentionally uses anachronistic vocabulary like "dude" and "bullshit" to maintain the emotive force and social power of the dialogue.

Melancholia and the Death Drive

Unlike a traditional romance, The Heart in Winter is described as an exploration of "melancholic desire".

• Impending Doom: Tom and Polly’s joy is "mediated and mitigated by the knowledge of the mourning to come". They know their dream of a life in San Francisco is unlikely to be realised.

• Desire vs. Sex: While the novel contains "furious lovemaking," it is less about titillation and more about "violent, conflicted, confused, self-destructive drives of desire".

• The Brutal World: Butte is depicted as a space of "great opportunity, but also great loneliness," where miners have high wages but short life expectancies, dying in their thirties .

Literary Influences

The discussion locates Barry within a "stereotypical Trinity" of Irish literary greats: Samuel Beckett, James Joyce, and Flann O’Brien. From O'Brien, Barry draws the retrieval of folklore and the surreal presence of cowboys; from Joyce, the "drunken death drive" and perambulations through a city .

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The Irish Books Podcast is produced by Martin Franklin for East Coast Studio, with support from the Irish Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, the Embassy of Ireland Australia, and Monash University

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Cagey Truths: Anna Burns’s Milkman

 

The Architecture of Cagey Truths: Anna Burns’s Milkman

In the eighth episode of The Irish Books Podcast, host Dr Chris Murray is joined by James Chandler, Distinguished Service Professor at the University of Chicago, to explore the dense, cagey, and hilariously dark world of Anna Burns’s Man Booker Prize-winning novel, Milkman.

Set in a town very like Belfast during the late 1970s, the novel follows an 18-year-old woman - referred to only as Middle Sister as she navigates the suffocating surveillance of a community torn apart by the Troubles.

A Plot Delivered Backwards

The experts discuss the novel's unique and often disorienting structure.

• The Opening Reveal: The entire plot is essentially delivered in the opening paragraph, a stylistic choice that mirrors the narrator’s habit of reading books backward to avoid the anxiety of not knowing the ending.

• Associative Narration: Reminiscent of Tristram Shandy or Joyce, the story moves through digressions within digressions, where key information is often revealed only when the narrator lets her guard down.

• The Milkman Encounters: The first half of the book is anchored by three terrifying encounters with a high-ranking paramilitary operative known as the Milkman, who "infiltrates her psyche" through persistent, uninvited attention.

A City of Abstractions

One of the most striking features of Milkman is its refusal to use proper names. Characters and places are defined solely by their function or their relationship to the narrator.

• The District: Places are identified by titles like "the ten-minute area," "the area over the road," and "the country over the water" (England).

• The Cast: We meet "Maybe-Boyfriend," "First Brother-in-Law," "Tablets Girl," and "Nuclear Boy".

• Ideological Vision: This codification reflects an ideological vision where the community's conflicting views determine how reality is seen - or ignored.

Whatever You Say, Say Nothing

The conversation delves into the Gothic terror of life under constant scrutiny, where gossip operates lightning fast and silence is a survival mechanism.

• The Dog and Cat Massacres: The experts analyse the horrific dog massacre, where the community's alarm system- the barking of local dogs, is silenced by the state to allow for the unimpeded abuse of the residents.

• The Power of Acknowledgement: A pivotal moment occurs when the "Real Milkman" (the literal milk delivery man) acknowledges a cat's head Middle Sister has found, marking a rare moment of sanity and hope in a world governed by denial.

Hope in the Sunset

Despite the political bleakness, the podcast identifies positive figures like the French teacher who attempts to teach her students to see the many colours of a sunset rather than just the "ideological blue" they are conditioned to report.

Listen to the full episode to hear Dr. Chris Murray and James Chandler discuss why Milkman is a masterpiece of "stylistic awkwardness" and why you should never give up on this challenging, hilarious, and essential text.

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The Irish Books Podcast is proudly produced by East Coast Studio with support from the Irish Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, the Embassy of Ireland Australia, and Monash University.

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Cracked Lens over a Cold Case: Sebastian Barry's Old God's Time

In the seventh episode of The Irish Books Podcast, host Chris Murray and guest Kevin Foster (Associate Professor in Literary Studies, Monash University) delve into the haunting and hallucinatory world of Sebastian Barry’s 2023 novel, Old God’s Time. Longlisted for the Booker Prize, the novel is a sophisticated excavation of past traumas that refuses to follow the predictable path of a standard cold-case investigation.

A Cold Case Reawakened

The narrative centers on Tom Kettle, a retired Garda detective living in a small seaside flat near Dalkey. His quiet existence is shattered when two former colleagues, Wilson and O’Casey, visit him to discuss a cold case involving the historic murder of a priest, Father Matthews.

• The Cracked Lens of Memory: Tom’s mind is a cracked lens; he suffers from hallucinations, including the appearance of unicorns, and a conscious suppression of memory that makes the truth difficult to grasp

• The Dethroning of the Church: The reinvestigation is made possible because the historical collusion between the Irish State and the Catholic Church has finally been broken, allowing for an accounting of crimes that were once "taken out of the hands" of the police

• A Purgatorial Setting: Tom has lived in his flat for nine months - a symbolic "pregnancy time span"- yet he remains surrounded by unpacked boxes, existing in a purgatorial space between mental acuity and decline

Trauma and the Irresistible Past

The novel explores the unimaginable loss Tom has suffered. Both Tom and his late wife, June, were survivors of horrific institutional abuse - Tom at the hands of the Christian Brothers and June by nuns.

• A Haven Under Siege: Tom and June shared a pact to create a family haven to protect their children from the trauma of their own pasts

• The Return of the Repressed: Despite their efforts, the past proves "irresistible". The family is laid waste: June dies by self-immolation, their daughter Winnie dies of a heroin overdose, and their son Joe is shot

• The Murder at the Heart: The experts discuss the ambiguity surrounding Father Matthews' death. While Tom describes June killing the priest who abused her, the narrative suggests Tom may have been possessed by her rage, committing the act himself

The Orphean Ending

In a surreal final sequence, Tom engages in a "fantasy of fulfilled protection," using a sniper rifle to intervene in a local kidnapping - an echo of his violent past as a soldier in the British Army in Malaya.

• A Journey Through Hades: The discussion frames the novel as a "journey through Tom's Hades"

• The Final Haunting: The book concludes with a poignant, Orphean image: June appearing in Tom's room. Tom is afraid to touch her, fearing she will evaporate like Eurydice, leaving the reader to wonder if Tom has finally "died and gone to heaven" or is simply lost in a final haunting

Listen to the Full Discussion

Despite its heavy themes, Old God's Time is noted for its "jauntiness" and Tom’s ability to blunder on with remarkable equanimity. Join Chris and Kevin as they navigate this "mastery of the art" of storytelling and celebrate the resilience of the human spirit

Listen to Episode 7: Sebastian Barry’s Old God’s Time wherever you get your podcasts.

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The Irish Books Podcast is proudly produced by East Coast Studio with support from the Irish Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, the Embassy of Ireland Australia, and Monash University.

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Placing the Pieces of Grief and Love: Sally Rooney’s Intermezzo

In the sixth episode of Irish Books, Chris Murray and guest Madeleine Callaghan (Senior Lecturer in the School of English at the University of Sheffield) dive into the cerebral world of Sally Rooney’s fourth novel, Intermezzo.

The discussion moves beyond the typical "millennial" labels often applied to Rooney, instead framing the novel as a rigorous exploration of grief, sibling rivalry, and the complicated sex lives of two brothers in contemporary Dublin.

A Symmetrical Crisis: The Koubek Brothers

Set in the months following the death of their father in 2022, the novel follows the divergent paths of Ivan and Peter Koubek. Rooney constructs a symmetrical set of relationships that challenge conventional social double standards.

• Ivan (22): A neurodivergent former chess prodigy whose career stagnated during his father’s illness. He falls into a "heartbreaking" love with Margaret, an arts director in her mid-30s.

• Peter (32): A successful lawyer who finds himself divided between two women: the much younger Naomi, who sells explicit content online, and his ex-girlfriend Sylvia, an intellectual peer living with chronic pain.

The experts discuss how Peter attempts a version of the Cartesian division between body and soul, falsely categorising Naomi as purely sexual and Sylvia as purely intellectual - a fantasy that collapses as the women assert their own personhood.

The Chess Premise: No True Openings

Murray notes how the novel duplicates the logic of chess, where players study "umpteen ways of setting up the early game". However, the discussion reveals a darker reality: in Rooney’s world, there are no "true openings".

Characters are constantly haunted by ghosts of the past - whether it is the ghost of Sylvia in Peter’s mind or the memory of a happy family that no longer exists. This lack of a fresh start leads to a "floating free in the void of grief," where personalities and bereavement become inextricably tangled.

A World Without Friendship?

One of the more provocative points of the episode is the observation of how little friendship exists in this novel.

• Isolation: Everything seems pinned to sexual partnering, with characters unable to connect properly with their mother or even each other

• The Symbol of the Dog: The late father’s dog, Alexei, becomes a powerful symbol of "responsibility and the evasion of responsibility". While Peter and others treat the dog as a "shit machine" to be discarded, only Ivan attempts to answer the straightforward question of the animal’s need

The Irish-Russian Connection

Callaghan argues that Rooney is uniting the Russian tradition of "anatomising the self" with the Irish literary tradition.

• Serious Intent: The experts note a po-faced quality to the novel - a lack of the tragic shambles humor found in Joyce or Beckett

• Intellectual Elitism: The novel snipes at the corporate class of modern Ireland (personified by the character Darren), favoring the "bright" and "intelligent" characters who can distinguish between Dostoevsky and Joyce.

Listen to the Full Discussion

Is Intermezzo a perfect novel, or does it leave its characters "marooned in their own stasis"? Join Chris and Maddy as they navigate the thickening connections and enmeshed webs of Rooney’s latest work.

Listen to Episode 6: Sally Rooney’s Intermezzo wherever you get your podcasts.

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The Irish Books Podcast is proudly produced by East Coast Studio with support from the Irish Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, the Embassy of Ireland Australia, and Monash University.

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